IWOC Listserver Classics - Members Reviews of the standard turbo

Members have often sent in their first impressions of driving an Impreza. There are also those who compared their cars to others.


Subject: [iwoc] The new Evpreza
From: Mark Mansfield
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:11:38 +0200

After four years of Imprezas (Euro models), I now have had my Evo VI (RSII) for four months and am still think its a great car.

But I also think the Impreza is a great car. In addition, it is more discrete, uses less fuel, is comfier for long journeys (over two to three hours).

The advantage and disadvantage of the Evo is that there are almost none on the roads here in France -- so it is unique and turns heads -- even pensioners.

In spite of what the guys on the Evo list say, I am still disappointed at not having any indecent propositions from buxom young wenches wanting to ride on, er in that is, my trusty steed.

So, my Subaru has become my shopping and everyday car and for use when I want a nice relaxing drive. And the Evo, well that's for good rally-like hard core drives in the mountains and blasts down the Autoroutes at 160 plus (yes it reaches the rev limiter in fifth without any trouble).

But in fairness, the Impreza still manages to go round my favourite local bend at 87.5 mph minimum while I can't pluck up the courage to go beyond 75 mph in the Evo. Odd that. Then again, in the wet at the Laquais circuit near to Lyon (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/circuit-auto/), the Impreza manages about 1min31 compared to 1min27 for the Evo.

Yes, wash out understeer is a let down on the Impreza but having 1mm toe-in at all four corners helps. This weekend I will fit and test the front Anti-Lift/Castor-Improvement fittings that go on the back-end of the lower front suspension member. Everyone says they're grrreat - so I am looking forward to finding out.

GEARBOX OIL WARNING -- after a track day, just a few laps, my gearbox is whining. I think it is a bearing and it seems that the oil level was low. So, check your oil levels from time to time. Apparently the gearbox gets very hot.

All the best,

Mark Mansfield


Subject: [iwoc] I did it today - took a test drive.
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:22:10 +0100
From: Nick Lockyer

Saturday.

Not that I had any, but doubts as to whether I would like driving a Scoob have been well and truly quelled today. Thanks to Bell and Colvill of Surrey, I have no doubt that within the next couple or four months I will be a happy and grinning participant in the daily ritual known as driving to work and back. In fact I am sure I will be so happy and grinning I'll be finding the most poor excuses for driving anywhere for next to no reason. However, I digress.

The test drive itself was interesting and eye-opening. This is a car that you can hit 100 in without even noticing (and I did, and I immediately slowed). I sincerely hope that very soon after actually owning one you get used to the risk you are subjecting to your license - else this may not be the car for me ;-) Mind you I was watching the road as I was unfamiliar with it, and was trying to get the most of the time behind the wheel, and was also watching the rev counter for when to change gear, so I am sure more familiarity with the beastie will result in a more reasonable driving style.

Being stuck behind a transit van in (at 40ish in 4th gear at just over 2000 revs) showed me just how flexible this car is... it was just like my primera - until the overtake when wham off it goes... the downshift to 3rd and into the climbing revs the car just went. Cornering was slightly different to almost anything I've driven before - confidence was encouraged and under the confines of the test drive the car seemed more like a rear wheel drive car but not so... confused? So was I but exhilarated at the same time.

Well that's my report... though I feel that I should add my initial thoughts that were also the only words I could utter to Caroline for the first 10 miles or so of the way home to Southampton. "absolutely amazing... fantastic". I must have said that several times on the way home as she started to mock me by saying it in unison with me.

All I can say is - God I gotta get me one of these cars.

Thanks for putting up with my gibbering - but I had to share my thoughts.

Nick
Wearing the grin that you all know and love.


Here is a comparison between a 1994 UK Turbo and a 1999 Honda Accord Type R. Not too bad concidering the Impreza is 5 years old and has improved since.

Subject: [iwoc] Impreza vs Accord Type R - 2 months in
From: "Tony T-B"
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:27:39 +0100

Some of you may remember a couple of months ago I bought a Honda Accord Type R to sit beside the aged 1994 UK spec 5 Door Turbo in our family car park. After a couple of privately mailed comments asking how they compared, and now with 4500 miles on the clock here's a brief review:

Honda has a hugely superior interior to the Impreza (which has the early Nissan Micra style seats and dash), and has significantly more room for my lanky (6'9") frame. The Recaros, fake carbon-fibre and titanium gearlever are a delight.

Exterior: Personal preference, but IMHO the 5 door Impreza has always been hideous, but then I can't stand the big rear wing on the Honda either.

Comfort: The Impreza, with long-travel suspension is much better on country roads. The Honda, on 45 aspect tyres with seemingly no suspension travel can be charitably described as "sporty".

Roadholding and handling: On good roads there is truly nothing in it. Both can out handle almost anything they are likely to meet wet or dry. On country lanes where I spend much of my time, the Honda will leap all over the place with every camber change or pothole. Similarly on crests, the Subaru is untroubled where the Honda tries to fly. For a front-driver, the Honda has by a mile the best traction wet or dry I have ever experienced. Almost as good as AWD in fact.

Brakes: The Honda has huge discs with awesome performance, Subaru "adequate".

Performance: The Honda provides linear acceleration all the way from 1000 to 8000, I always know how much power will be delivered and can modulate the throttle precisely at all times. The Subaru is undriveable till 2500 then delivers the turbo bang in the back up to 7000. Overall acceleration is virtually identical , though I do miss the wall of torque that powers me from 60-90 on overtaking in the Scooby. Gearchange is better in the Honda, though.

Overall, for a long motorway drive I'd always choose the Honda for greater comfort and better fuel economy (28 mpg on SUL). For an irresponsible blast round the lanes it has to be the Impreza!

Oh yes, I've still only seen one other Type R on the road in two months and I got delivery of mine in four days and a discount!

Regards
TT-B


Year - 1998

Subject: [iwoc] Godalming Micro-Meet Report (a bit long-winded)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:19:03 +0100
From: Mark Otway

As I've mentioned in previous posts, a couple of weeks ago I had my car serviced and at the same time I had quickshift fitted and my brakes upgraded to Mintex pads all round with Tarox discs on the front. Matt Bunner was interested to find out what difference the brakes made, so last night we met up to compare the two cars. Andy Hampshire popped round to say hello too, although he couldn't come out to 'play' (due to a previous engagement). Chris Crawshay also managed to make it, so it turned into a mini-meet, with the prospect of an extremely interesting three-way car comparison in the offing, particularly as the only Imprezas I'd driven were mine, Bell & Colvill's 'self-Prodrived' 97MY demo car, and an automatic 2.0GL (non-turbo).

The cars 'on-test' were (age before beauty):

- my green 96N Turbo (with Prodrive suspension)
- Chris's green 97P Turbo
- Matt's red 98R Turbo

All three cars were running on 16" wheels with mine on Bridgestone S-02s and (I think) Matt and Chris's cars running on Pzeros.

We headed from my house in Godalming over to Bell & Colvill, where we stopped for a couple of minutes to decide on a plan of action. Here we made the first swap, with Chris taking Matt's car, me jumping into Chris's and Matt leading off in my car.

The first thing that I noticed about the 97 model compared to mine was how much better the standard suspension was compared to what I was expecting. I thought that it would be a bit like that of the 20.GL, i.e. fairly soft with plenty of body roll, but in fact the roll was much less and there was a good amount of feedback. After the first couple of corners I was beginning to wonder if the prodrive shocks were worth the bother, as the cornering is very lively on the standard car. However, as we got further into the backroads around Shere I started to realise that there was far more understeer than my car, to the point where on a couple of times I went into corners a little too fast and almost got it very wrong ( :-{ sorry if I worried you Chris!). This wasn't helped by the (relatively) complete lack of brakes; I only understood quite how much extra stopping power the Tarox/Mintex combination gives when I late-braked into a couple of corners (expecting to scrub off the speed with ease) and ended up having to stamp good and hard on the pedal to get the desired effect (i.e., not exploring the hedgerow in detail).

The next major difference I noticed was the boost level and delivery. I'd been told before that from 97 onwards the power comes in sooner and is much smoother, although I didn't quite understand how big the differences would be. Putting my foot down hard anywhere below 3500rpm in my car usually results in some severe lag before the boost kicks in, but there was none of that here, the turbo just spins up on demand and starts delivering about 1000rpm lower. The acceleration is smooth, just effortlessly wafting the car forward at a cracking pace - it seemed much slower than my car, although I knew we were moving as I was working hard to keep up with Matt & Chris. The one thing I missed was Mike Tyson - he normally sits in the back seat and punches me in the back when my car hits full boost! There was not much of that here, and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get the same explosive thump of acceleration. Smoother maybe, but as much fun? Of course the reverse was also true - coming off the accelerator in the later model didn't result in the engine clawing back the car quite so hard (as Chris put it, he almost went through the windscreen when he first came off the gas in my car!!!). It made me realise that I ought to learn to heel-and-toe....

I was pleasantly surprised by the standard seats; having got used to the Recaros I assumed there would be no lateral support and that the comfort level wouldn't have been as good. However, I started to wonder whether the extra expense of the Recaro's was worth it (although it was the previous owner who paid for mine!) - the standard ones really are very good.

After a few more miles we stopped for another swap and exchanged notes. Chris didn't look too happy when I mentioned the couple of close calls I'd had (not surprisingly, since he's trading his car in on Saturday when he's due to pick up his Prodrive Terzo!) and Matt mentioned that he'd found the quickshift difficult to get used to, to the point where he'd driven for a mile or so without being able to change gear!!! We switched again and headed off. This time I was in Matt's 98.

Immediately I felt much more relaxed; the understeer was a lot less (although still far greater than I'm used to - I managed to run wide unintentionally on at least one corner) and the brakes were better too, although this may just be because I was starting to adjust to the feel of the car. Overall, Matt and Chris's cars were very similar, the main difference being the gearshift; the throw in the 98 is much shorter than the previous models, although having had a chance to compare all types now, I'd recommened going for quickshift even in a 98. This might just be down to my tastes though - Chris said that he preferred the shift in Matt's car the best.

I also liked the trim and interior of the 98 - the dash has a much better layout and I particularly liked the box on the centre-console (nice for resting your elbow on during the slow stretches!). The white dials look great, although as the light started to fade I found the contrast levels not quite high enough (the digits are white with a thin black border) but I suspect that in full light or complete darkness they're fine. The other thing that caught me out was the fact that the light/wiper sticks are on the opposite sides to those in my car!

So, my final opinion of the three cars in comparison? The most astonishing thing was the margin of difference between the cars, considering they're all the same model. Each has it's own little traits (good and bad, although mostly the former) and all three were fun to drive. I'm even more pleased with the brakes having now had the chance for a direct comparison - I would recommend them to anyone (regardless of MY) simply because they give you much more confidence; you can roll into a corner at higher speed knowing that the brakes will scrub off what you don't want with no difficulty. I guess a lot of that's to do with the suspension too - the brakes work much more efficiently when there's little or no understeer coming into play.

On the way home it got me thinking though, that if I do get a 99MY next March that I might be left a little disappointed - simply because I know I'll miss the awesome and dramatic kick that the 96's turbo gives. Maybe an ECU upgrade will help, but I can't help wondering if for raw power it might be better to go for an STi - I guess I'll need to do a back-to-back comparison before I buy anything though.

I'm already looking forward to the next big test - at some point in the not too distant future we're hopefully going to get together for another comparison, but this time with Chris's Prodrive Terzo (and maybe we can rope Mr. Marritt in too with his STi?). I'll be interested to see what a 98 model drives like with the sports suspension, and I'm interested to know exactly how much difference the ECU upgrade makes. Matt's thinking about getting the Prodrive geometry settings on his car when he takes it in for his first service, so that'll be an eyeopener too.

I took a couple of piccies (nothing exciting) so when I've finished the film I'll post them on my website.

Mark


Subject: [iwoc] Mini-Godalming report (slightly long - apologies)
From: Matthew Bunner
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:58:35 +0100

Mark Otway's report just about sums up the quality evening we had driving each other's cars! Here are my thoughts:

The cars were:

- Mark's green 96N Turbo (with Prodrive suspension + Quickshift + brake upgrade)
- Chris's green 97P Turbo
- My red 98R Turbo - standard everything!

The first thing noticeable after I jumped into Mark's car was my pathetic ability to use the quickshift!! We pulled away from Bell & Colvill and I heard that the pick-up on the earlier models wasn't as obvious as the 98MY, so I wasn't surprised that I started slowly. However, I realised something was amiss when I looked in the rear-view mirror to see a stack of traffic behind me!! I couldn't understand it, surely the boost will pick up soon - until I tried to change gear. I had pulled away in 3rd !!! A couple of miles down the road, I still wasn't used to the gear box: I selected neutral a few times, then 5th when it should have been 3rd....you get the picture (calm down Mark, there wasn't any clutch crunching!). Anyway, we turned off the main road to get to the quiet back roads around Shere. This is where we had fun. By now I had located 3rd and 4th and was confident in my ability to change gear and I could concentrate on what we arranged the evening for.

The immediate impression from Mark's car was it's ability to go exactly where you wanted. No understeer, just raw train-on-a-track handling. Combine that with the responsive Mintex/Tarox combination made for excellent fun - I could now wipe of speed easily and set myself up for a corner (once I had the right gear selected!). The suspension wasn't that much different from my 98MY, but what was noticeable was the lack of understeer (Mark's has had the geometry done) - now I can see why people rave about the new set-up. No 'wibbling' (I hope people know what I mean!) into the corner - all corner entrances felt clean.

A few miles later, we stopped compared notes. Mark said that Chris's didn't have a lot of braking power, quoting that he had to back off a few times in case he went hedge watching! I mentioned that it would take me AGES to get use to the Quickshift and Chris commented on the excellent gearbox of the 98MY.

In Chris's car I could now at least change gear properly, even though the throw was huge!!! We pulled away and accelerated hard to a main bend. I applied the brakes...then more...then more...blimey, Mark you weren't joking about the brakes!!! Compared to your setup, this was a totally different story!! The understeer was easily apparent, but, hey, that's fun in my book - the car felt alive. Once I had adjusted to the understeer and the relatively inferior brakes, it was just like a normal Scooby!

We finished our drive and had a half-an-hour chat. One thing we agreed on was that although they are the same car, the difference was large. The older model's engines had a more rough, grunting sound to it, where as mine as a refined bumble. The brakes on Mark's car were ultra responsive and coupled with no understeer from the Prodrive suspension, meant that I could drive faster with more assurance in his car - I just loved the point-and-go feel of the setup. The brakes on Chris's car were nowhere near as good, but this didn't detract from my enjoyment. Large understeer gave the car an alive feel to it. Can't wait to see (drive - ahem.....) Chris's Prodrived Terzo, with the exterior performance pack. I think he got a taste of what he's going to get and I just feel that if he was getting only a few hours kip waiting for Saturday, he'll now be unable to sleep because of a large grin on his face !

Overall, given the choice, I would uprate the brakes/disc combination, leave the suspension as is and just have the geometry changed on my 98MY. That leaves the exhaust, CD player, driving lights, strut brace to this about....

Matt


Subject: [iwoc] Merseyside-Mini-Meet report (bit long)
From: Andrew Marritt
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:20:24 +0100

Andy Holmes & I met up yesterday morning on an unofficial meet (my folks live 1 mile from his house). To give you all some background Andy has - for the next 5 days at least - a Prodrive Turbo (everything bar the engine upgrade) and I have a WRX STi4.

After exchanging pleasantries we drove off for a comparison in the local countryside. The roads in northern Merseyside are dictated by the land
- it was reclaimed from the sea and is therefore very flat. The roads follow the edges of the fields and are a mixture of straights and tight 90 degree turns. All great fun though they demand excellent driving skills - enter a corner at the wrong speed and there is no room for alteration mid bend (as I was to find out!!)

After arriving at a sensible spot we first went out in Andy's car. This was when my impression that the STi is a 'gorgeous beast which is unparalleled as a road car' disappeared.

With the Prodrive suspension and close ratio box Andy's car is much more raw than my car - the gears enabled him to accelerate on these roads as well as my more powerful machine. The suspension however was from a different planet. The car stuck to the road like a limpet, braking was far more controlled. I got out 4 miles later with a feeling similar to my first go in a Subaru.

Back into my STi. Suddenly the car didn't feel as precise. Suddenly the acceleration was tamed. Sorry make that the feeling of acceleration, of speed was tamed.

For the first time I felt unsure of my ability to point the car. We were probably covering ground at similar speeds, maybe slightly slower - Andy's gearbox kept the turbo on boost much better than mine.

And then it happened - 90 degree right, no hedges, probably a 15-20-mph-in-taking-the-whole-road job. I had become unaware of the sensation of speed and expected the car to turn like Andy's. I entered at 35mph.

Somewhere about the apex the front wheels decided they had had enough and broke all meaningful contact with the tarmac. I don't think that either of us thought we were off, though I was having 'nasty kerb meets nice alloys' thoughts. Lesson learnt.

The following 3-4 miles were taken with much more caution. The STi is certainly a faster car - high speeds feel 30 mph slower than you're actually travelling. But to me Andy's Prodrive car felt far more involving than my STi. It was better on these roads.

We arrived back to find smoke pouring off both front brakes. (Andy's Mintex brakes had done so before, but less so.)

Andy politely pointed out that the geometry should be changed, and the next tyres should be Pirelli's. The geometry is to be done in the next week however, I can't help but thinking getting rid of my c**p driving would make the biggest performance improvement.

Thoroughly enjoyable meet - the photo's will be on the web very soon. Hopefully I will be able to make the next NW meet and see more folks.

Andrew Marritt


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